Hello again fellow heretics! It's your friendly neighborhood heretic here, and in this blog we are going to discuss how to build a tournament list capable of destroying those pesky meta lists floating around. Especially the hated Eldar.
First let's talk about the codex and supplements, and how you can use them to build a list. The vanilla codex has been heralded as weak for some time, and compared to others that have been updated its kinda true. But let's not fall into the trap of whining about it. That's what space marine players do.
The codex itself has some strong units, especially with forgeworld options. Make no mistake, tournament players WILL bring their best units to the table. So don't let anyone tell you not to use the power that forgeworld brings. Let's talk about the good:
Choosing HQ to go along with your army is crucial to your success. If you are running an assault army, putting Kharn in a dreadclaw with some marines or bersekers is money. All he ever lacked to be amazing was a delivery system. Problem solved.
The demon prince of khorne with wings and the axe of blind fury kills everything it touches. I mean 7+d6 s9 ap2 attacks on the charge, can you say bye bye wraithknight?
Malefic sorcerers are cheap and useful too. Summoning is a powerful tool you can use, and he lets you take multiple infernal relics. (FW models such as the Kharybdis, Sicaran, and Fire Raptor)
A chaos lord with a chainfist in terminator armor in a dreadclaw with some marines is a solid choice, as is a chaos lord on a juggernaut with the axe of blind fury. Less killy than the prince but really killy if he joins a unit of spawn of khorne.
Chaos space marines in dreadclaw drop pods-
This is a powerful tool for you as a chaos player. It's essentially a cooler version of a drop pod that flies. And your marines don't have to disembark the turn it lands. Flying objective secured assault vehicle drop pods? Suck on that imperial scum.
Chaos spawn of Nurgle- these are fast, hold objectives like nobody's business, and don't give a shit about strength D or s10 shooting. Park them on a relic or objective in a ruin and laugh as your opponent tries to take it from you.
Heldrakes- Not sure I need to explain this one. Takes pointy ears and those pesky space marines off the table in a hurry. Listen to them whine as you melt their jetbikes.
Heavy Support- OK so here's where I throw some of our best units out there in one go. The Chaos Relic Sicaran is the best tank in the game. Hands down. With s7 rending no jink shots laugh as you shoot warp hunters and jetbikes off the table. And those pesky rerollable dark angels jink saves. The rending bolters upgrade is soooooo good it is a must. With 13/12/12 armor and ceramite, and it's a fast tank too! So good.
The Chaos Fire Raptor Gunship is also one of the best flyers in the game. It can shoot different targets, every shot can rend, and it has missiles for an alpha strke. And 4 hull points. Yummy goodness for your opponents to take to the face.
Don't underestimate your good Ole Las predators either. For 140 points they can serve as your anti armor too. And if you take a bunch of drop pods and chaos spawn, any shooting your opponent does at a tank assures you of a win.
Lord of War- the Chaos Knights are fantastic support. Having a 5+ demon save is clutch in melee and wherever your shield isnt. The khorne demon knight with rampage is pretty sweet.
There are several formations that work well with a CSM army. The sorcerers cabal can be used with your spawn to take enemy shooting and for summoning, making you even more powerful. Summoned flesh hounds and bloodcrushers make for a bad day for the enemy. And of course using a skatach wraithknight against his own unit is more than payback for the games it ate your face. Paybacks a bitch.
Using your friendly battle brothers in a list is helpful too. Khorne Demonkin have two of the best formations to play alongside as support. The Fist of Khorne and the gorepack. I covered these in my last article so if you need more info on them check it out.
Another army to consider as allies are.... Orks! I took an ork and CSM cad to warzone atlanta last November and was at the top tables all tournament, with one loss to my good friend Price Wilkes.. who won the whole thing and is the last person to beat me with Eldar.
So how do I beat the meta lists with this? You're probably stumped. Anyone can lose if you roll badly and your opponent rolls well. We all know that. But if you take fast, hard hitting units that can control the table and use the correct heavy support and fast attack choices, you have all the tools necessary to win. Say you take a fire raptor, heldrake, and sicaran as support they are taking 3-4 jetbikes squads off the table per turn while your gorepack or mobs of chaos spawn crush the warp spider spam.
You can deal with super heavies and gargantuan creatures easily enough as well. Either use things to tie them up or kharn and a demon prince to smash them into a million pieces. Your call. I prefer to smash them, personally. And for the naysayers out there, these armies work will against space marines, eldar, tau, and you CAN beat them. So don't let anyone tell you that you can't win with chaos space marines. I've been doing it, and will continue to do so.
Good luck fellow heretics, and I hope you've found this guide useful. Share and spread our blog around if you liked what you read!
Showing posts with label Khorne. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Khorne. Show all posts
Sunday, August 7, 2016
Tuesday, August 2, 2016
Khorne Daemonkin, Chaos Space Marines, and You!
Hello fellow heretics! Today i am going to be discussing Khorne Daemonkin and Chaos Space Marines. Together! I have been running a pretty powerful army at some ITC events, most recently ATC. First, let us look at the list:
KDK:Formation: Fist Of Khorne 19x Berserkers, Berserker Champion w/ Axe of Khorne, Kharybdis Assault Claw
KDK: Formation: Gorepack 5x Flesh hounds, 5x Flesh hounds, 5x Flesh hounds, 5x Flesh hounds 3x bikers, 3x bikers
CSM: Combined arms detachment: Kharn the Betrayer
Chaos Lord, Mark of Khorne, Juggernaut, Axe of Blind Fury
5x assault chaos space marines, Dreadclaw drop pod
5x assault chaos space marines, Dreadclaw drop pod
The idea of the list is simple. The Fist of Khorne and Kharns drop pod drop onto the table turn one, with the Flesh hounds and bikers starting on the table. The Fist is a strong alpha strike, as all the berserkers inside can disembark and assault turn one. As if that isnt enough for the enemy to think about, any vehicles or buildings the Kharybdis scatters on top of takes a strength D hit at AP1! I have rolled a "6" here and elimated Imperial Knights several times.
Kharn also lands turn one as the Dreadclaws and Kharybdis follow drop pod assault rules. The difference is that his unit doesnt have to disembark! They are flyers and can flat out in the shooting phase, setting up a massive turn two assault with flesh hounds, Kharn, bikes, and berserkers (they should kill anything they assault turn one). The army completely controls the table from turn one forward. I threw the Jugger lord in to ride around with some flesh hounds and clean up after the rest of the army. Cant go wrong with 7+d6 S6 ap2 attacks on the charge.
When i first put the list together, I had the ATC in mind. It's first real test was at an ITC event in Knoxville, Tn. I ended up winning the event, sweeping all three rounds. I also played some pretty competitive lists in practice games before giving the final decision to our team, Beer for the Beer God, that i was taking it. Individually the list went 5-1 at ATC, with pairings and results as follows:
Round 1- Vs Tau Empire Ghostkeel/Riptide/broadside intercepting spam. This game was brutal for me. Not the best match up, so i was already fighting an uphill battle. I lost this game to some hot dice from Kelly Wallace, who couldnt miss with overwatch. Coupled with the fact I couldnt make an armor save, he made quick work of me and i lost 20-0. Needless to say, it wasnt a good start to the tournament for the heretics. But the chaos gods had not left me completely.
Round 2- Vs 3 Renegade Knights + Heldrake Flyer Wing. This was a far better match up for me. His knights had 5 Gatlin cannons between them. I got the first turn in this one, and sadly the fist didnt scatter onto a knight. It did land perfectly between two of his knights, however, and i managed to assault two knights and tie them up. Kharn cleaned the knights up (s7 armourbane hitting on 2s with hatred) while the flesh hounds controlled the table. The heldrakes killed a few units, but it was too late as his knights were all dead turn 4. I won this game 18-2.
Round 3- Vs Daemonic Incursion of Tzeentch. This guy had tons and tons of psychic dice. Three heralds, fateweaver, tons of horrors, and 30 screamers. He had a good army, but ran into all kinds of match up problems against me. Almost my entire army had some kind of special rule that killed psykers. Worse for him is i rolled first turn, and he failed to seize. He set up in a corner of the table thinking he was safe, but the Fist dropped in turn one and multi assaulted two units of horrors and three units of screamers. He lost the combat by 7 and lost each unit to instability rolls, giving me 5 blood tithe points turn one. I tabled him turn 4, winning the game 20-0. Want to make a note this was one of my favorite games, because he was such a great guy.
Round 4- Vs Tau Riptide/Yvahrna/Stormsurge spam. We all have seen this list floating around, and it is a very hard list for any army to deal with. For the life of me, i cannot remember the guys name (he was with forge the narrative, a great group of guys). I ended up seizing the initiative this game and getting turn one. The Fist dropped in and ate intercepting fire from 3 riptides and a stormsurge. He killed 8 or so berserkers, and i had though that was going to win him the game, much like the first game vs Tau i had. I made my assault and the axe of khorne tore down one riptide as i chose not to multi assault the other two in his wing (this is a sound strategy chaos players, once they blew their intercept they wouldnt be able to fire at me on his turn, so i chose to ignore them and assault them next turn). I tied up the other riptides the rest of the game, he didnt get to fire them on his turn once. Kharn chopped down one Yvarhna but ended up getting stomped out by a stormsurge. This was by far the closest game of the tournament, and due to some crafty rolling he managed to steal the relic on turn 7 to narrow the gap. I won this game 11-9. Best game of the tournament.
Round 5- Orks with a big mek stompa and a shitload of bikes. This game was another classic bad match up for my opponent. The alpha strike from the pissed off berserkers took his warlord away on the top of turn one, and he never really recovered. Highlight of the game is when he assaulted Kharn (who was by himself due to dakka guns, with only one wound left) with a warboss and nob with power klaws. My only chance here was to eat his Nob in a challenge and heal a wound or two. Kharn issued the challenge and murdered the poor Nob easily, and i immediately rolled on the chaos boon table. To my opponents dismay i rolled a 66, turning Kharn into a demon prince and seperating him from combat, saving his life! Was an epic moment for the chaos gods. I won this game 20-0 as well.
Round 6- Final game was against the hated Space Wolves. He was running 10 wulfen, 15 thunderwolf cavalry, a wolf lord and a Lancer. I elected to let hm go first on hammer and anvil, parking myself 35 inches away on deployment so as not to get assaulted turn one by the wulfens special ability. He moved forward on his turn, and on my turn one the fist of khorne once again went to work, scattering directly on top of the lancer, giving it 3 hull points and landing next to some wulfen. They disembarked, and knowing he was going to kill the berserkers i assaulted them anyways because i needed them off the table. The 81 attacks killed all the wulfen, but his abiltiy to fight back on death killed 13 of my berserkers as well. I tied his lancer up with a unit of flesh hounds and Kharn finished it off turn 2, and the ensuing explosion killed off the rest of one of his cavalry units and one of my flesh hound units with my chaos lord in it. I ended up tabling him turn 4, which is gratifying for any Chaos player to table an imperial army. He was such great guy though. Won this game 20-0, bringing my totals for ATC to 5-1 and 89 points scored, which was the highest among Khorne Demonkin players (i think, we all got lumped in with demons so i didnt win best in that category, sadly) and i think one cabal CSM army placed higher than i did as well. It was overall a good tournament for me. ( I havent seen all f the overall results for individuals, so this may be off a little)
So don't let anyone tell you that Chaos can't compete in today's meta. Check back with me soon I'll be doing a CSM and KDK tactica and codex rundown. Feel free to comment any questions!
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!
Round 3- Vs Daemonic Incursion of Tzeentch. This guy had tons and tons of psychic dice. Three heralds, fateweaver, tons of horrors, and 30 screamers. He had a good army, but ran into all kinds of match up problems against me. Almost my entire army had some kind of special rule that killed psykers. Worse for him is i rolled first turn, and he failed to seize. He set up in a corner of the table thinking he was safe, but the Fist dropped in turn one and multi assaulted two units of horrors and three units of screamers. He lost the combat by 7 and lost each unit to instability rolls, giving me 5 blood tithe points turn one. I tabled him turn 4, winning the game 20-0. Want to make a note this was one of my favorite games, because he was such a great guy.
Round 4- Vs Tau Riptide/Yvahrna/Stormsurge spam. We all have seen this list floating around, and it is a very hard list for any army to deal with. For the life of me, i cannot remember the guys name (he was with forge the narrative, a great group of guys). I ended up seizing the initiative this game and getting turn one. The Fist dropped in and ate intercepting fire from 3 riptides and a stormsurge. He killed 8 or so berserkers, and i had though that was going to win him the game, much like the first game vs Tau i had. I made my assault and the axe of khorne tore down one riptide as i chose not to multi assault the other two in his wing (this is a sound strategy chaos players, once they blew their intercept they wouldnt be able to fire at me on his turn, so i chose to ignore them and assault them next turn). I tied up the other riptides the rest of the game, he didnt get to fire them on his turn once. Kharn chopped down one Yvarhna but ended up getting stomped out by a stormsurge. This was by far the closest game of the tournament, and due to some crafty rolling he managed to steal the relic on turn 7 to narrow the gap. I won this game 11-9. Best game of the tournament.
Round 5- Orks with a big mek stompa and a shitload of bikes. This game was another classic bad match up for my opponent. The alpha strike from the pissed off berserkers took his warlord away on the top of turn one, and he never really recovered. Highlight of the game is when he assaulted Kharn (who was by himself due to dakka guns, with only one wound left) with a warboss and nob with power klaws. My only chance here was to eat his Nob in a challenge and heal a wound or two. Kharn issued the challenge and murdered the poor Nob easily, and i immediately rolled on the chaos boon table. To my opponents dismay i rolled a 66, turning Kharn into a demon prince and seperating him from combat, saving his life! Was an epic moment for the chaos gods. I won this game 20-0 as well.
Round 6- Final game was against the hated Space Wolves. He was running 10 wulfen, 15 thunderwolf cavalry, a wolf lord and a Lancer. I elected to let hm go first on hammer and anvil, parking myself 35 inches away on deployment so as not to get assaulted turn one by the wulfens special ability. He moved forward on his turn, and on my turn one the fist of khorne once again went to work, scattering directly on top of the lancer, giving it 3 hull points and landing next to some wulfen. They disembarked, and knowing he was going to kill the berserkers i assaulted them anyways because i needed them off the table. The 81 attacks killed all the wulfen, but his abiltiy to fight back on death killed 13 of my berserkers as well. I tied his lancer up with a unit of flesh hounds and Kharn finished it off turn 2, and the ensuing explosion killed off the rest of one of his cavalry units and one of my flesh hound units with my chaos lord in it. I ended up tabling him turn 4, which is gratifying for any Chaos player to table an imperial army. He was such great guy though. Won this game 20-0, bringing my totals for ATC to 5-1 and 89 points scored, which was the highest among Khorne Demonkin players (i think, we all got lumped in with demons so i didnt win best in that category, sadly) and i think one cabal CSM army placed higher than i did as well. It was overall a good tournament for me. ( I havent seen all f the overall results for individuals, so this may be off a little)
So don't let anyone tell you that Chaos can't compete in today's meta. Check back with me soon I'll be doing a CSM and KDK tactica and codex rundown. Feel free to comment any questions!
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!
Labels:
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Sunday, July 31, 2016
Cabal Star tactics
Beer Apostle here and this evening I have decided to write a little bit about the largely talked about Cabal star. The Cabal Star can be built a few ways but mainly consists of Flesh hounds from the Khorne Daemonkin book and the Cyclobia Cabal from the CSM Black Legion Supplement. Before I use to run just a CAD of KDK to take a juggo lord and about 20 fleshhounds but I have moved on from that. Now I run the Gorepack along with the Cabal and another CAD that I will discuss later....Muahahaha
Gorepack
So in my Gorepack, I leave the two mandatory biker squads with no upgrades.
Bikers: I have found they either get killed really quick or are just great back field objective holders or denial units. One thing I have found I can do with the bikes is charge the unit my cabal star does so my champion can issue a challenge instead of my sorcerers giving me a bloodtithe point for dying in a challenge and another if the entire bike squad gets kill. Khorne wins either way. I have also found in a more recent game...they are great from blocking enemy units from charging my cabal by blocking with them.
Fleshhounds: Now here is the meat and potatoes of this list. I run 4 squads of hounds. 1 squad being a 20 man squad and the other 3 being a 5 man squad. The 20 man squad is obviously the stars squad and the other 3...well I use them just like the bikers. They are there to block my opponent from charging me and denying my opponent objectives.
Cyclobia Cabal
So I usually run 3 sorcerers in my Cabal and no more.
Sorcerer 1:
ML 3, Spell Familiar, Bike, Unmarked, Force Sword, Bolt Pistol, and Melta Bomb
Sorcerer 2:
ML 3. Spell Familiar, Bike, Unmarked, Power Fist, Bolt Pistol
Sorcerer 3:
ML 3, Spell Familiar, Bike, Unmarked, Power Fist, Bolt Pistol
Sorcerer 1:
So the idea for my first sorcerer is that he is my monstrous creature killer. With Force turned on and some psychic buffs...he will make light work of many of the monstrous creatures in the Grim Dark. With his psychic powers I roll on daemonology santic....why santic? Well for hammerhand and sanctuary of course. With both being one warp charge the buffs to the unit are unreal. Plus 2 str to the unit...making the dogs str 7 on the charge and the power fist str 10. Sanctuary will boost the dogs to 4 plus invuls. Although it does make other daemons treat everything within 12 inches dangerous terrain, the dogs being beast make them ignore that. You will see a little later why I wont care much about that.
Sorcerer 2 and 3:
So these two are my superheavy or gmc killers. With hammerhand off...my power fist are at str 10 ap 2. At WS 5...they are hitting most Super heavy walkers and GMCs on 3's. What power do I roll on for these guys?? Well here I am now looking for endurance from Biomancy. Warp Speed on a power fist is also a plus because who doesnt like getting plus 3 attacks with a power fist??? With Warpspeed and on the Charge the power fist would have 7 attacks!!! If I get endurance with the first sorcerer I then get greedy and roll on telepathy for invisibility.
One thing that is smart to do when rolling your psychic powers is to roll your dice one at a time. If you manage to get the powers you want then go ahead and move on to another chart. For Biomancy...I dont really need smite and for santic...I really dont need banishment so getting a psychic focus from rolling on one chart isn't necessary.
Optional builds to complete the list
Like I mentioned in the first paragraph, I use to run a CAD with a juggalord and 20 fleshounds. You can still do this and save yourself from points from the tax of bikers but you lose Hammer of Wrath on the dogs and preferred enemy psyker.... But If I were to take a Juggalord...I'd make the CAD a crimson slaughter detachments so I can give the Juggalord a daemonheart. A 2 plus amour save is money when you will most likely be throwing him into challenges. I would also give him the axe of blind fury and of course make him Khorne. (I write this as the GW FAQs are not official and I play in alot of ITC tournaments that dont play with the GW FAQs so taking two relics is still cool) The axe of blind fury are 2+ str and with hammerhand on...That will be str 8 AP 2....lets think about this....The axe is a daemon weapon...so you get to roll for extra attacks....you also get rage...So just based off that alone...You have 4 base attacks for the juggalord. Plus one for CC weapon and pistol. (axe of blind fury isnt specialist) and plus 2 for rage. That is 7 attacks before you roll for your daemon weapon boost. That is 7+ STR 8 ap 2 attacks swinging at Init 4! Holy moly!!!
I have also seen other people running Traitor Guard but as I dont know much about Traitor Guard...I wont write about them.
You can also take an allied of Chaos Daemons so you can possibly get Grimoire and pink horrors to boost your psychic dice or summon better.
What I bring with my Cabal
Now I am either gonna lose credibility once I share this or help some people out. I run........Eldar Corsairs......Being desperate allies doesn't bother me much as I can easily move quickly with my corsairs. I run a corsair prince...who I make my warlord and 6 units of 3 man scatter bikes. They are Objective secured and great at zooming across the table to capture objectives or getting into position to shoot someone off an objective. sorry...not sorry.....
So that is my tactics and tricks the the Cyclobia Cabal...leave some comments...let me know what you think..negative or positive...I really dont care....
~Beer Apostle~
Beer For the Beer God
Gorepack
So in my Gorepack, I leave the two mandatory biker squads with no upgrades.
Bikers: I have found they either get killed really quick or are just great back field objective holders or denial units. One thing I have found I can do with the bikes is charge the unit my cabal star does so my champion can issue a challenge instead of my sorcerers giving me a bloodtithe point for dying in a challenge and another if the entire bike squad gets kill. Khorne wins either way. I have also found in a more recent game...they are great from blocking enemy units from charging my cabal by blocking with them.
Fleshhounds: Now here is the meat and potatoes of this list. I run 4 squads of hounds. 1 squad being a 20 man squad and the other 3 being a 5 man squad. The 20 man squad is obviously the stars squad and the other 3...well I use them just like the bikers. They are there to block my opponent from charging me and denying my opponent objectives.
![]() |
| How I envision my Fleshhounds! |
So I usually run 3 sorcerers in my Cabal and no more.
Sorcerer 1:
ML 3, Spell Familiar, Bike, Unmarked, Force Sword, Bolt Pistol, and Melta Bomb
Sorcerer 2:
ML 3. Spell Familiar, Bike, Unmarked, Power Fist, Bolt Pistol
Sorcerer 3:
ML 3, Spell Familiar, Bike, Unmarked, Power Fist, Bolt Pistol
Sorcerer 1:
So the idea for my first sorcerer is that he is my monstrous creature killer. With Force turned on and some psychic buffs...he will make light work of many of the monstrous creatures in the Grim Dark. With his psychic powers I roll on daemonology santic....why santic? Well for hammerhand and sanctuary of course. With both being one warp charge the buffs to the unit are unreal. Plus 2 str to the unit...making the dogs str 7 on the charge and the power fist str 10. Sanctuary will boost the dogs to 4 plus invuls. Although it does make other daemons treat everything within 12 inches dangerous terrain, the dogs being beast make them ignore that. You will see a little later why I wont care much about that.
Sorcerer 2 and 3:
So these two are my superheavy or gmc killers. With hammerhand off...my power fist are at str 10 ap 2. At WS 5...they are hitting most Super heavy walkers and GMCs on 3's. What power do I roll on for these guys?? Well here I am now looking for endurance from Biomancy. Warp Speed on a power fist is also a plus because who doesnt like getting plus 3 attacks with a power fist??? With Warpspeed and on the Charge the power fist would have 7 attacks!!! If I get endurance with the first sorcerer I then get greedy and roll on telepathy for invisibility.
One thing that is smart to do when rolling your psychic powers is to roll your dice one at a time. If you manage to get the powers you want then go ahead and move on to another chart. For Biomancy...I dont really need smite and for santic...I really dont need banishment so getting a psychic focus from rolling on one chart isn't necessary.
Optional builds to complete the list
Like I mentioned in the first paragraph, I use to run a CAD with a juggalord and 20 fleshounds. You can still do this and save yourself from points from the tax of bikers but you lose Hammer of Wrath on the dogs and preferred enemy psyker.... But If I were to take a Juggalord...I'd make the CAD a crimson slaughter detachments so I can give the Juggalord a daemonheart. A 2 plus amour save is money when you will most likely be throwing him into challenges. I would also give him the axe of blind fury and of course make him Khorne. (I write this as the GW FAQs are not official and I play in alot of ITC tournaments that dont play with the GW FAQs so taking two relics is still cool) The axe of blind fury are 2+ str and with hammerhand on...That will be str 8 AP 2....lets think about this....The axe is a daemon weapon...so you get to roll for extra attacks....you also get rage...So just based off that alone...You have 4 base attacks for the juggalord. Plus one for CC weapon and pistol. (axe of blind fury isnt specialist) and plus 2 for rage. That is 7 attacks before you roll for your daemon weapon boost. That is 7+ STR 8 ap 2 attacks swinging at Init 4! Holy moly!!!
I have also seen other people running Traitor Guard but as I dont know much about Traitor Guard...I wont write about them.
You can also take an allied of Chaos Daemons so you can possibly get Grimoire and pink horrors to boost your psychic dice or summon better.
What I bring with my Cabal
Now I am either gonna lose credibility once I share this or help some people out. I run........Eldar Corsairs......Being desperate allies doesn't bother me much as I can easily move quickly with my corsairs. I run a corsair prince...who I make my warlord and 6 units of 3 man scatter bikes. They are Objective secured and great at zooming across the table to capture objectives or getting into position to shoot someone off an objective. sorry...not sorry.....
So that is my tactics and tricks the the Cyclobia Cabal...leave some comments...let me know what you think..negative or positive...I really dont care....
~Beer Apostle~
Beer For the Beer God
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